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Red Hat Drops Consumer Linux, Sponsors Community Led Fedora Project

Red Hat Drops Consumer Linux, Sponsors Community Led Fedora Project

Red Hat Network has shocked many users of its Linux distro by informing them 1) that it will discontinue maintenance on Red Hat Linux 7.x and 8.0 by the end of 2003; 2) that it will discontinue maintenance on Red Hat 9.0 by the end of April, 2004; and 3) that it does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line.

Here is the full text of an e-mail sent out this morning, courtesy of NewsForge:

Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer.

This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your migration to another Red Hat solution.

As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line.

With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as possible. Details:

****************

If you purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic before February 28, 2004, you will receive 50% off the price for two years.[*] (That's two years for the price of one.)

****************

In addition, we have created a Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center to address your migration planning and other questions, such as:

* What are best practices for implementing the migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux?

* Are there other migration alternatives?

* How do I purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic at the price above?

* What if my paid subscription to RHN extends past April 30, 2004?

****************
Find out more about your migration options with product comparisons, whitepapers and documentation at the Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center.

Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers:

Sincerely,

Red Hat, Inc.

[*] Limit 10 units. Higher volume purchase inquiries should contact a regional Red Hat sales representative. Contact numbers available at http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn

--the Red Hat Network Team

More Stories By Red Hat News Desk

Red Hat News Desk trawls the world's news information sources and brings you timely updates on its flagship Red Hat Enterprise Linux as well as the company's other product lines including database, content, and collaboration management applications; server and embedded operating systems; and software - including its most recent virtualization offerings.

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Most Recent Comments
Grover Righter 03/27/05 11:34:53 PM EST

After 18 months of living on FreeBSD only (and loving it - a great UN*X), I had to install Linux on a laptop in order to run several Java apps. I installed Fedora FC3r4, which seems to be a pretty good OS. Installs and runs well.

Funny thing though - there is no documentation. I thought at first I was just incompetent, but I looked at all the CDs and searched the RD Fedora site. Here is all they have for DOCs:
* Release Notes
* Jargon Buster
* Fedora Core 2 SELinux FAQ
* Fedora Core 3 SELinux FAQ
* Stateless Linux tutorial
* Keeping Up to Date
* Udev on Fedora
* Understanding and Customizing the Apache HTTP SELinux Policy (Fedora Core 3)

There is no standard user documentation. And since RH (Fedora) uses many custom admin commands, you really need some docs. Also, they rename all the redhat-xxx-xxx commands as system-xxx-xxx. Once you figure it out, not hard to make it work.

- Grover Righter

Zoue 12/19/04 09:32:09 AM EST

Great!
Best Wishes.

P4Hyperthreader 09/10/04 05:24:33 AM EDT

ism's are not at fault here. In case you have not noticed we all live in a potientially homogeneous world that dilutes everyday. The big fish are eating the little fish and the guppies are scared of consumption. Change and diversity are the greatest motivators known to mankind. The next greatest server is on the horizon because a group of young intelects are in need of something more powerful and nothing out there right know meets their needs. But its the not knowing for sure that spawn this dialogue. Have faith in the future for it will quickly be the present!

Nifty Pickle 06/08/04 02:24:47 PM EDT

I don't know anything about Linux. I have no clue what any of you are talking about.

SnipeCivilians 05/20/04 09:30:23 AM EDT

Strafe wrote
OpenSource is software communism. To think that software developers should not get paid and be rewarded for their efforts is purely socialism at the digital level.

Whilst capitalism may be your preferred system (even if you're not sure what it is) i believe the main idea of socialism is that the workers DO get paid for their efforts, which in pure capitalist terms is left to the market. in effect, the least possible pay.

The idea of doing some work without a profit motive is not new. Christ seemed to be willing to share some ideas without a direct business benefit, and he promoted sharing in a big way.

Electricity technology in the main is in the public domain because all the work was done by a philanthropist, who did not patent all his work, but made his discoveries freely available (for the glory of God, apparently.)

I am in debt to the free software movement for giving me some choices in understanding software without the ruinous effect of business making it impossibly expensive to operate and explore (legally, anyhow).

As for Red Hat, it is a business issue. if it is a good call, they will prosper. if not, they probably won't. Thats the best thing about capitalism. (when it is not totally corrupted by money influencing goverment, anyhow)

dave 04/08/04 10:24:36 PM EDT

I've got my holes dug in the back yard. So long RH. Good buy MS! I've got my eye on a really nice pad of paper and a wonderful pen !

jj 02/13/04 09:35:23 AM EST

Anyone who abandons customers in the way Redhat has done
does not deserve customers. I used to have 4 Redhat machines, as of now I have converted 3 of them to Debian.
Even though installation/configuration is more difficult,
I highly recommend Debian. Debian's apt-get utility is the greatest. No more rpm's that won't update because of a dependency problem. apt-get obtains all dependent packages automatically. I am now a happy and satisfied Debian user. SuSe may do what Redhat has done, so I wouldn't go there.

Randy Poznan 12/19/03 02:33:29 PM EST

Redhat is starting to become a necessary evil. We are migrating to Oracle on Itanium. Support sucks so far they shipped us Enterprise linux for x86 after we ordered the Itanium edition. To get our itanium copy we had to buy another license from them cause we have other x86 dev servers or something. Whatever I dont understand there licensing I thought the license was a support contract or something. My first taste of the corporate Linux experience was not good. Next time Redhat starts dissing anything for not being under GNU license or marching to the governments steps I think im going to PUKE.

rambo 11/25/03 09:00:56 PM EST

Strafe:
Not a bad troll. You may want to rethink your criticisms of OpenSource software. There's a big difference between free beer and free software. Closed source software will, by definition, always suffer from hidden bugs and backdoors. If you're ok with this, then enjoy the myriad support options you have with MSDN and TechNet. If you are getting paid to solve a problem right now, the source code is the definitive reference and sometimes the best way of finding why something fails. Lack of user-readable documentation is not necessarily a bad thing. Users invariably log into windows servers and can easily mess up configurations or bury errors a few windows deep in the config. Arcane/obfuscated/secure admin interfaces stop the users from cutting their own throats and give the admins the leverage to solve the problem from the ground up. Nothing wrong with RH charging (cute SCO licensing comment) for later supported versions. I hope they do just fine.

Just for the record, how many NDA's have you signed with M$ in the course of supporting your Windows servers? Did you know that many of the bugs that are fixed in service packs are NOT documented? Did you know that M$ has to protect some of its support tools they give out with NDA's? Feel free to contact Bill Hollingshead at MS SQL Server support and ask about these. MS is not doing you a favor by hiding the source. They are struggling to remain a viable alternative in the face of actual competition. They will grip tighter and tighter the more afraid they become. You'll see this in more restrictive licenses, mandatory upgrades, and software rentals. If you're ok with this, fine. Communism is when the people are complacent with the collective making decisions for them. Democracy is when the people make the decisions for themselves. It's about choice, not money.

Zombie 11/24/03 04:03:13 AM EST

I use Fedora Core 1. I like their function in my pc like the Red hat 9.(I dare to say that I sit down it much better than red hat)

Strafe 11/19/03 07:37:31 PM EST

BTW.

I applaud Red Hat's decision. It is about time that Linux OS developers and support personnel started getting "professional" status as opposed to being viewed as glorified hobbyists.

This also adds legitimacy to RHEL in the eyes of Corporate America. This will further their inroads into the server OS market.

WANTED:

Open Source Developers and Support Staff for Linux. Must be oncall 24x7x365 to support business customers. Must meet all their needs and provide full Microsoft compatibility for our Corporate Customers. We expect 100% from you but offer no salary.

Wow! Sounds like great job! Not!

You would never even consider applying for job like that yet you give Red Hat a hard time for "selling out"? For how long did you expect Red Hat to keep giving everything away for FREE? They are a business and businesses exist to make money. Nothing wrong with that.

Strafe 11/19/03 07:36:45 PM EST

BTW.

I applaud Red Hat's decision. It is about time that Linux OS developers and support personnel started getting "professional" status as opposed to being viewed as glorified hobbyists.

This also adds legitimacy to RHEL in the eyes of Corporate America. This will further their inroads into the server OS market.

WANTED:

Open Source Developers and Support Staff for Linux. Must be oncall 24x7x365 to support business customers. Must meet all their needs and provide full Microsoft compatibility for our Corporate Customers. We expect 100% from you but offer no salary.

Wow! Sounds like great job! Not!

You would never even consider applying for job like that yet you give Red Hat a hard time for "selling out"? For how long did you expect Red Hat to keep giving everything away for FREE? They are a business and businesses exist to make money. Nothing wrong with that.

Strafe 11/19/03 07:22:53 PM EST

Choice. Listen to the hobbyist politicos whine about choice. Ever work in an IT shop? Do you think your Telephonic and Deskside PC Support staff want to support a myriad of word processors, spreadsheets, OS's and applications? Of course NOT. Too much to know and not enough time. "Oh, sorry Mister Director of Marketing, you have to check your glib version to see if it matches that called for in the .o object files from the new version of that Project management software you are running on SuSe."

Yeah. Any support team wants to focus there efforts on one application in any category for a variety of reasons. Do you really want your Marketing Group running one word processor and your Communications Group using another? Choices are good in a corporate environment? While MS has its problems, it also has the TechNET, MSDN and online resources that dwarf anything in the Linux community. They are very forthcoming about problems (even if they have lots of them!).

If MS fell off the planet tomorrow and Linux became the desktop standard using OpenOffice, you would all become disgruntled because its a "monopoly" and "everyone is using it". Its a psychological thing, not a practical thing. You find some other "niche" OS to rant and rave as the next coming (BeOS?) and deride Linux as selling out.

Hey, how about that MrProject? MS-Project clone for Linux. So how is that coming along? Last update was some time ago. And if my company were running on it (we would not pay the developer a penny because this is the OpenSource revolution remember, software and the effort to produce/support it should be FREE, FREE, FREE) how do we get support? What if the sole guy developing it was on vacation or died or quit?

OpenSource is software communism. To think that software developers should not get paid and be rewarded for their efforts is purely socialism at the digital level.

Hey, here's a thought!

How about all you Linux Zealots quit your jobs and work solely on OpenSource? You won't get paid since the expectation is that it should all be free. After the first mortgage payment is due or your child needs to visit the doctor, your common sense will return.

For the record, I run Windows XP, OSX Panther and Red Hat Linux at home. I have lots of experience with them all. Each has their merits. I personally feel that OSX offers the best of Microsoft and Linux. But reality in the corporate world dictates otherwise.

It's all about money folks. And if you don't like capitalism, North Korea probably has lots of space for OpenSource communists. :-)

Strafe 11/19/03 07:05:36 PM EST

"Red Hat Linux .... you are terminated."

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Linux has splintered into those who will pay (which is no better than Windows) and those who will not pay for software and/or support.

The Linux community has an OS now. You must next attack the cash cow. Microsoft Office. Too many groups are doing there own thing taking away from any concentrated attempt to make inroads into the Office Suite market. Corporate users don't care about the OS (only power user hobbyists with political grudges). They care about getting their work done and that means the applications. You must provide them with a FREE office suite. So far we have ThinkOffice, OpenOffice, StarOffice, GnomeOffice....why so many? As in the corporate world, only one will win. Why not take the best of all those and make ONE office suite and have everyone focus on that?!?! It is the only way to compete with Microsoft Office.

Red Hat Linux = $149 (box set) + $96 (RHN) + $1,400 SCO License = about $1,650 per Linux server (assuming single processor too!!!!)

Windows 2003 server = $482 (Enterprise License cost)

Hmmm.........in a corporate environment, Linux is far from FREE. Just because hobbyists can download it free does not mean that is what a large corporation is going to do. They want/need accountability and support.

Linux, with all its distributions, legal issues (SCO) and lack of corporate quality software, has literally become the "Tower of OS Babel". It was off to such a promising start too. Quite a shame actually.

Still not to late to turn it around though.

Tired one 11/19/03 11:21:24 AM EST

Not on the subject but maybe I can improve someone´s life here.
Guys, I´m giving up.
Time to stop.
I am tired of all the IT world because upper management takes up all the money, always has, always will. We are PAWNS. To the ones of you that worry about making a living... get out and get some marketing and/or administration diplomas in addition to your engineering degree and forget about it.
This section of the job market has the lowest brain-use/U$ worldwide.

Jim 11/18/03 03:15:35 PM EST

How about Apple Computer and it's single license server for unlimited use. How does this compare to Redhat fee? If you are going to pay, which would you rather pay for. As far as open source is concerned, Apple OSX is based on Free BSD.

David L 11/17/03 12:46:49 AM EST

To netboy541,

I found some from Fedora's Web page.
Fedora is not NEW OS. Please don't confuse. Fedora is a project that start from years before.
Fedora is a good project and have good idea but need time to prove.
Rh face to money issue and support issue now. Well, you can ask for RH how to solve it.

netboy541, your concept may be wrong :
- we don't need tolerate to M$ because of M$ monopoly in the world. If everything is M$ monopoly, we hate it. If M$ continue monopoly, we don't have choice in later on. As a result, whatever M$ give, we must be accept without say no.
- In the free world, we don't need monopoly. We only need the freedom of choice.

netboy541 11/16/03 09:44:09 PM EST

i'm just really really concerned that sence Fedora is a "new" os, that it will have the same disastorous effects every "new" os has, and crash crash crash....

I must admit, I am absolutely LIVID that RH has pretty much been buried alive, but who am I. I'm just the little guy out there running RH9 on all my machines, except for one. I started with RH6.1 and kept on plugging away... Now I have RH down for the most part, and they just yank the rug out from under me. I am really mad because I paid for the errata support, and they are acting like "Well we will knock off some money on this, if you give us some more money" As I told my Dad, It's starting to sound more and more like Bill has his hands in this one, although I know that's not the case. I'm pretty sure tho the boys in Redmond where throwin a party when they heard about this. I work with computers, and I have sence I was 8 years old. I have used, implemented, and toyed with linux for years. I've tried RH, Debian, Suse, and a few others over the years, and I stuck with redhat because I could understand it, and I liked it. I hate Microsoft with a bloody passion, but I have to tolerate it, because in Corporate America, Microsoft is the king for the most part. All I can say is I feel like RedHat has thrown all of it's loyal users out in the cold. It's like a divorce or something. I wonder if I can run my apache server and mail and all the things that made RH great -- on this "Fedora Project" --- Geeze -- sounds like something off of The Outer Limits or something....

Sea Dragon 11/15/03 07:34:59 AM EST

I found that from Fedora Site
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fedora is a community project dedicated to building high-quality, 3rd party rpms, for the RedHat Linux distribution. Our goal is to facilitate easy package installation through automatic update methods such as apt and yum, while at the same time maintaining first rate security procedures.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To Fun

You right, everyone have different favior.
Anyway, for me, I will try Fedora.

Also, "I do as I need , not because of others."

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Fun 11/15/03 07:09:10 AM EST

For me, I use SUSE and RH before. Start from RH 5, I use it as my server & desktop. And swith one be one through 6.0, 7.2 ....., 9.0. Well, I found that both of them are Same in the past version. For my personel view, I prefer RedHat as my desktop. But now I will change to use Fedora version. Although some people may not want it, doesn't matter because every people have different favior. I found that :

- Fedora is fast growing and most update, So if you need production version, you may not suitible to use it. You may change your Linux workstation/server to higher version RHWS or RH Enterprise Linux. They are stable more supportable. Or just change to other Linux distributor, such as Debian or SUSE... Those are Linux and those are good. But for mine, it doesn't matter, I want Fedora version. I like to see how it is good or not and need how to improve. I like ir because it has online update and far close to new update software - new/update feature. That's the one I want to use.

Syam Pillai 11/15/03 01:39:29 AM EST

I started using Linux with RH versions. I have purchased, installed, used, deployed (in different environments) and taught (so many people still call me for free support!) every RH Professional release from 5 onwards still 7.3. When I bought RH 8.0, I realized that they created a proprietory desktop interface (my fave is alsways KDE from version 2.0 onwards, because it was easier to ask M$ users to switch by demoing KDE to them. In fact, I helped hundreds of M$ users to switch to Linux) it is time to look for an alternative. Even after installing RH8 on one of my machines, I bought SuSE8.1. Now, I have the latest SuSE9.0 running everywhere and I love their Yast and YOU! Hope, they don't follow the RH route, now, after the merger with Novell.

Sea Dragon 11/14/03 10:49:19 AM EST

"SCO" decision maker make the whole SCO group far away from Linux society and get Money from M$ to attack Linux society. It is so upset.

David L 11/13/03 08:46:33 PM EST

To Marja,

Plaese don't connect "SCO" to Linux Society directly.
"SCO" do the thing that make itself far away from Linux society and let himeself close to M$. SCO get money from M$ and fight to LInux Society.

[SUSE with Novell] and [RedHat] and IBM are doing the business that started from the beginning, now and the future. What's wrong. The main point is they contribute their efforts to Linux society. No one can say it is wrong.
They are good company.

Steve M. 11/13/03 05:30:15 PM EST

How about marketshare change?

Marja 11/13/03 02:59:13 PM EST

Hello,

It will be just like the SUSE -> Novell story.
Business!!!!! Everybody needs to eat and make money
SCO already started with a new strategy in the
EMEA by changing the distribution contracts. And I
know that the new concept will be better for the users
too. IBM spend 50Mio$ in the SUSE/Novell alliance.
What will change in the product to help IBM get that
investment back. Price change?!?

Marja

Grover Righter 11/10/03 06:54:59 PM EST

Updated Price Information from Red Hat:

This information was copied directly from the Red Hat Network products site. I would like to update everyone because some of the prior information was misleading (including mine). I –think- you can get a server distribution of Linux from RH for $799 plus $222.50 per year. I still can’t tell if online update support is included for the first year, but I think it is.

Corrections:
[1] I was offered a $20 deal on updates for RH9 through ‘End Of Life’ by a RH sales rep via email. In the below information, it appears that EOL is April 2004, therefore, for anyone who already owns an upgrade entitlement that expires after April, there is no benefit to the below deal.

[2] As far as I can tell, the product you should buy if you have a server is the $222.50 per-server-per-year (PSPY) product. This is almost 4 times the former lowest price of $60 PSPY. I have read the descriptions and there is still some ambiguity, but I would recommend “Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES Basic Edition with Management Service” if you have a real server and need electronic support. Note that the $174.50 is marked as a ‘special price’ good only for a few months.

[3] Support prices for Workstations (WS) are shocking to me. It looks like the floor cost is $137.50 PWPY (Per Workstation Per Year). Note that the cheaper $89.50 price is also marked as a short term special.

So here it is boys and girls – the latest support info from RH.

===================================
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES Basic Edition with Management Service*
$222.50/year for 1 system
Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS Basic Edition with Management Service*
$137.50/year for 1 system
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES Basic Edition*
$174.50/year for 1 system
Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS Basic Edition*
$89.50/year for 1 system
Management Service Entitlement**
$96/year for 1 system
Update Service Entitlement***
$20

* 50% discount promotional price expires February 29th, 2004. Learn more about RHEL migration and this special offer.

** IMPORTANT NOTE - Purchase of an RHN Management Entitlement does not allow access to RHEL content without an active RHEL subscription. Purchase of this offering without a RHEL subscription will only allow the subscriber access to the RHL channels, which reach End of Life on April 30, 2004. Learn more about the RHL End of Life policy.

*** IMPORTANT NOTE - This specially discounted product will expire April 30, 2004. Customers purchasing this entitlement will not receive a full year subscription, nor will they receive access to RHEL content. Only RHL content is provided through this subscription. Learn more about the RHL End of Life policy.

More on RH End Of Life Policy
=============================
Errata: Security Alerts, Bugfixes, and Enhancements
Red Hat releases Errata Alerts in three categories: Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts. Each Errata Alert is comprised of a summary of the problem and the solution, including the RPM package(s) required to fix the problem.

The Red Hat Security Resource Center contains more information including details on how to contact us about security issues.

Errata Support Period
Red Hat Enterprise Linux -- Red Hat has established fixed life cycles for Red Hat Enterprise Linux which will allow customers and partners to plan their resources, certifications and implementations accordingly.

To facilitate customer maintenance cycles, Red Hat Enterprise Linux will be supported via errata updates. These Updates will contain security, bug fix and enhancement errata that has been qualified on the appropriate Red Hat Enterprise Linux release and architecture. The scope of enhancement errata is constrained to additional hardware support. Security errata will be the only errata released independent of the Updates.
More details...

Red Hat Linux -- Red Hat's policy for Red Hat Linux distributions is to provide maintenance for at least 12 months. At certain times, Red Hat may extend errata maintenance for certain popular releases of the operating system. End of Life dates for errata maintenance for currently supported products are listed below:

Red Hat Linux 9 (Shrike) April 30, 2004
Red Hat Linux 8.0 (Psyche) December 31, 2003
Red Hat Linux 7.3 (Valhalla) December 31, 2003
Red Hat Linux 7.2 (Enigma) December 31, 2003
Red Hat Linux 7.1 (Seawolf) December 31, 2003

Steve M. 11/10/03 12:54:10 PM EST

A redhat representative has offered a prorated refund on the remainder of my subscriptions. I believe that redhat would like to move their customers to theur new pricing structure but are willing to work with those who want to leave.

Sea Dragon 11/10/03 10:10:20 AM EST

To Fun,

Support infromation found in here.
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/index.html
============================================
Red Hat will create, manage, and participate in forums where community members can support each other.
Through :
- mailing lis
- bugs report system
- discussion

But This level of support is opportunistic — no guarantees, warranties, or Service Level Agreements apply.

Well, I think you see the original information is better.
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/index.html

For my point of view only:
This type of support is OK same that as before.

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Fun 11/10/03 03:48:55 AM EST

I look at its site and found that Fedore still have support. Still need time to investiagte.

Please look at fedora - their site directly :
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html

Fedora objective is too long, I don't post here. I only interest to Fedora's non-objective, post it as follow. (Go to their site to look)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Non-Objectives of Fedora Core:
1. Slow rate of change.
2. Enabling commercial support, particularly Service Level Agreements.
3. Being a dumping ground for unmaintained or poorly designed software.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- It means that fast change and growing
- It is non-commencial support. I think it may be free
- From the point 3, it should be mantainable and be a good design software.

Hope all of you can go to Fedora's site to look at what is their object and what they will do and what they will not do.

robin 11/10/03 03:15:37 AM EST

yes, that's the way Redhat. I was pretty amazed that redhat could provide free support. It just doesnt make sense. Somehow, Redhat is a commercialized company. They need to earn money to survive. Afterall technology wont survive without funding. But i read somewhere that Redhat wont patch fedora nomore. I was pretty sad. Hopefully there is some way to solve about this patching. There is no problem if no support watsoever. But at least bug fixing shold at least be done, if not fedore is counting time to die.

And if redhat still host server for fedora repositry, we should be gratefull. What redhat done is enought. They provide space to host comunity and fedora distro.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 10:24:39 AM EST

* To fun,

It is so interesting that emotion used by someone. M$ will so happy except Linux society.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 10:23:30 AM EST

To fun,

It is so interesting that emotion used by someone. M$ will so heppy except Linux society.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 10:12:59 AM EST

It is so interesting. Someone want us back to M$ ro purchase expensive software and no choice in later on because good software are disappeared. It is so interesting that someone encourage us to do the wrong thing. So interesting. ha ha ha

Fun 11/09/03 10:05:14 AM EST

To cfmcginnis :

You feel no hope and back to M$. May be you are right because you want all people to use M$ software and hope M$ continue monoploy in the feature. Everyone no choose to use expensive and good marketingable software. No choose in later on because of every good software disappear because of monolopy then you and M$ will happy expect Linux society.

cfmcginnis 11/09/03 09:07:09 AM EST

I've been a software soldier since switching for Windows to Linux in 1996. The enemy was MicroSoft. The reason, to break the development gridlock imposed by Bill Gates's authoritarian will on the user community. Even though it's been a long long battle, my hope for a legitimate alternative to the Windows empire continued to flourish. My branch of service was RED HAT. Their software is more stable, economical, less maintenance, and most importantly, starting to compete on the desk top front. I'm preaching to the quire now, I know.
Well, to my dismay, Red Hat decided to throw in the towel. They have the right. I know how Southern soldiers felt when Robert E Lee surrendered now. Fortunately this shocked me back to reality. As much as I HATE it. All hope is gone. It's time to go back to the Microsoft side.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 02:07:37 AM EST

To : Phil

For my view only,
Too early to make conclusion may have some problems.

SO, such as I said before,
Open our eyes to look at :
"The Fedora Project" will contribute their effort to Linux society or not.

For my view only,
The best is "Keep open eyes to look. Not make conclusion now." only.

Phil 11/09/03 01:56:29 AM EST

To Sea Dragon,

I'm not angry, I'm just stating my own opinion... I am not claiming to be familiar with Fedora, and due to the enormous price tag, I know that I never will be.

But, if it ever came down to it, I know I can always switch over to FreeBSD.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:39:15 AM EST

There are a problems to submit the whole statement and
failed sometime.

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:38:05 AM EST

Is something different? Are RH really want to own Linux without Kernel? Can they do that? Why "Fedora Core" will allow outside people to distribute "Fedora Core"? "Fedora Core" make something wrong????

What's happen? Can discuss?

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Chee

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:37:37 AM EST

To Phil,

"RedHat is trying to treat an Open Source OS as if they were the ones who created it and that they have been in control of the source code all along (i.e Microsoft, Solaris)"

But I find some docs from Fedora in the bellowing :
"http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anyone is free at any time to fork this project, to go off and build their own distribution based on Fedora Core, just as many people have built distributions based on Red Hat Linux in the past. For Red Hat to participate in this project, Red Hat's own goals have to be met by the project. This doesn't mean that other goals cannot be met as well (except where they explicitly conflict with Red Hat's own critical goals), but the goals that Red Hat expresses define our "contract" with developers and users of Fedora Core.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Phil 11/09/03 01:35:44 AM EST

WOW! Am I glad I switched from decaf (RedHat) to regular (SuSE) when I did... Ever since RedHat announced that they were going public on Wall Street, I then realized that they were no longer about Open Source, but about PROFIT!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making a profit, but the path that they are taking seems to be a path of self-destruction.

The one thing that seems to have been forgotten is why Linux was created in the fisrt place. Re-read the initial post that a guy by the name of Linus Torvalds made several years ago when he initially RELEASED Linux to the general public for FREE... You do remember Mr. Torvalds, don't you, or have you forgotten?

I originally started using Slackware when Linux was barely at Kernel 1.2; At that time I was completely amazed that I was able to purchase an entire UNIX-like OS with plenty of extras for under thirty bucks... and I'm still amazed that I can buy SuSE 9.0 professional with all of its extensive packages for 1/3 the price of Windows XP Professional... not to mention the fact that I don't need a license key to use it.

My point is that RedHat is trying to treat an Open Source OS as if they were the ones who created it and that they have been in control of the source code all along (i.e Microsoft, Solaris)

I could go on-and-on, but I think I said all I need to say. It is not my intention to offend anyone, all I am trying to do is provide my own opinion. Last time I checked, I still live in the FREE world. Let's keep it that way!

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:35:23 AM EST

Is something different? Are RH really want to own Linux without Kernel? Can they do that? Why "Fedora Core" will allow outside people to distribute "Fedora Core"? "Fedora Core" make something wrong????

What's happen? Can discuss?

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:35:01 AM EST

To Phil,

"RedHat is trying to treat an Open Source OS as if they were the ones who created it and that they have been in control of the source code all along (i.e Microsoft, Solaris)"

But I find some docs from Fedora in the bellowing :
"http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anyone is free at any time to fork this project, to go off and build their own distribution based on Fedora Core, just as many people have built distributions based on Red Hat Linux in the past. For Red Hat to participate in this project, Red Hat's own goals have to be met by the project. This doesn't mean that other goals cannot be met as well (except where they explicitly conflict with Red Hat's own critical goals), but the goals that Red Hat expresses define our "contract" with developers and users of Fedora Core.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sea Dragon 11/09/03 01:20:25 AM EST

To Grover Righter,
Thanks you post this information.

Answer still not clear from RH actually really want to do?
What is "purchase one of the discounted entitlements offered online now at rhn.redhat.com for $20 which will offer you support through the end of life for support of RH9."? Still have support ????

What is this? Still have support but changed???
Can you request more answer form RH what they really want to do?

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Grover Righter 11/08/03 11:54:25 PM EST

I sent an inquiry to RH Support asking if the two support contracts I bought in September would expire in April - and if so, do I get a refund. I post their answer here without interpretation :-)
====================================
FROM: [email protected]
DATE: 11/7/2003 7:53 AM

Good Afternoon,

We are not discontinuing support for RHL, just RH8 in December and RH9 in April. From April through the remainder of your contract you will be given access to the RHEL WS channel for updates. In addition, if you choose to use the Fedora Project release, we will be strongly supporting the development of this RHL platform. If you would like to test the WS platform, then you can continue with your entitlement as it is and you will receive access to this channel from April through the end of your contract. At that time, you can choose to take a look at the Red Hat Professional workstation which is now selling in retail stores (come with 1 year of RHN included) or the Fedora Project release (details can be found at fedora.redhat.com). If you decide that you do not want to evaluate the WS product after April, then you may wish to send a request to terminate your RHN entitlement now so you can purchase one of the discounted entitlements offered online now at rhn.redhat.com for $20 which will offer you support through the end of life for support of RH9. I hope this has made things a little more clear, but if you have any addtional questions, please feel free to call us anytime via 888-REDHAT-1, Ext 41042 M-F 9:30am-5:30pm EST. Thank you.

Regards,
Deborah
Red Hat, Inc.
Customer Support

---- Original Message ----
From: Grover Righter
Subject: Refunds for recently purchased RHN

User Login: xxxxxx
User ID: xxxxxx
Customer Number: xxxxxx

Hi,

I bought 2 system entitelments for RHN in September 2003 for RH Linux 9.0. Now, the news reports that this support will cease in April 2004.

Will this support actually cease in April? I bought it for a year and was expecting to use it through next August.

I now probably need to migrate to another platform since you are withdrawing from the Linux distribution market. Can I obtain a refund for one of my entitlements? I have not yet deployed that server and I don't want to set it up and turn on support if it is obselete in April as stated in news articles.

Thanks.

- Grover Righter

Sea Dragon 11/08/03 08:29:04 PM EST

To Steve M.
Are you IT professional? What is your job?

I use RH 9.0 and purchase from RedHat but I max use with up2date function and use Local & international linux groups.

Well, may be my mistake, anyway, I work fine now and no problem.

About you, I think that is responsibility and money issue with RH. May be ask for RedHat to find the solution.

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Steve M. 11/08/03 02:14:15 PM EST

Seadragon,

Your missing the point of RHN. RHN is used by me to keep my systems up2date. To limit the possibilities of security breaches. I don't need help configuring or installing. RedHat's job is too make sure that supported packages function and patched as security flaws are detected.

Local & international linux groups are good for configuration and package selection issues but not for doing the QA work that is required to keep exposed servers patched.

Finally, yes this is about money...money paid for access to patched files for a production operating system. RedHat promissed a years worth of access to RedHat Network with the implication that RH 9 or a suitable successor would be available without increasing the cost durring the year.

Eliminating the service without refunding a prorated amount of the money or without providing an equivellent or better service could constitute a criminal fraud.

Sea Dragon 11/08/03 12:57:37 PM EST

TO Steve M.
- ask for Redhat how to solve it?
- find support, may be local Linux company.
In Hong Kong, there are too many. If you can pay for support service, they are really to want to serve you. :)

For me, I have one more option :
- find local & international Linux news group. They are free for help

Life is fun and Happy and no angry.

Cheers

Sea Dragon 11/08/03 12:32:28 PM EST

To Steve M.
Well, this is money issue?
just ask for Redhat how to solve it?
Are you It professional? What type of job you are doing?

Steve M. 11/08/03 11:44:01 AM EST

Fedora is not a viable option for production systems. This is according to RedHat. Replacing RH9 with fedora is not acceptable. For those of us who have paid for subscriptions to redhat network with the expectation that redhat would provide timely updates to reduce security risks fedora is not acceptable.

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